Multirow ObjectVR - but how?

the_b · Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:17 pm

Hey folks,

I´ve done my first ObjectVR Movies and there is no prob at all...
No, not really. I do not have probs with singelrow movies. but with the multirow one, I don´t get the slide chance vertical. I guess it depends on the way I take photographs.
Is there someone who can give me some informations how do I have to take photograph vertically? How do I manage it with the tripod and a normal three-way-head?

Thanks everyone!
the b.

PhotoSpherix · Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:53 am

Think of it this way. the object spins in the middle when you do a single row shot. When you do a multi row shot, you have to stay an equidistant from the object with the camera staying pointed at the object.

See in the illustration how the camera moves in an arc, but always points at the product

It could be done with a tripod and a head, but it would take so much measuring before and during the shot. Unless the object was large, bigger than a car, then the jitters in the camera would make the shot not work.

In this shot you can see the camera at the middle top of the frame. It is connected to an armature that moves around the centerpoint of the object. It always points at the object no matter where the arm is swung.

As a note to those that like to comment on the setup, keep in mind there is a brand new g3 and a state of the art elo touch monitor on the shelf to the left. Well not the bad, but that was about the first day with a d100:)

the_b · Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:33 pm

Thanxxx a lot for your post. It look quite elaborate, expensiv and not very handy. Is there some guidance available to get sometink like your ... (how do you call it?) self-built?

castillonis · Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:03 pm

It looks like he built it himself which is probably the best option. Kaidan sells different units for doing multi row object VRs. The lower end product Magellan 2000 sells for $4,339 USD on the web site. You need to have a steady stream of larger corporate clients to be able to pay for this machine. This is especially true, because many clients will not buy this if it costs much more than regular product photos. You need to be good at networking, and closing sales with larger corporate clients.

I would also assume that Kaidan has many patents on this, so anyone trying to bring a more reasonably priced product to the market may find themselves in litigation. I also, do not think that Kaidan would be interested in licensing the patents.

You could get two additional rows by raising and lowering your tripod. You would need a solution for hanging your object for the shot from below.

bemol73 · Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:10 pm

You can also try a USB-driven turntable, some lighting and a good camera.
Ortery could be an answer: http://www.ortery.com/index/index.php

PhotoSpherix · Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:26 pm

I have noticed their product line come up from time to time. It would be great for small items, but never are they willing to show price.

b and h has the small rotary for $1400.00 usd
and the medium rotary for $4200.00 usd
and the large for $6500.00 usd

I have not been able to find a price on the multi-row, light tent and rotary. Do you know what the Photosimile 5000 is going for?

zap · Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:05 pm

In this shot you can see the camera at the middle top of the frame. It is connected to an armature that moves around the centerpoint of the object. It always points at the object no matter where the arm is swung.

To PhotoSperix

Hi seems like a heavy time investment.
One question why did you use 2 side fixation wouldn't it be stable enough to use only one side having a heavy base. the D100 isn't that heavy isn't it?
Would limit size and weight.
I could imaging doing the arms in aluminum except for the base in steel or a heavy base fixation like a sun-umbrella base.

Overall it's the same principle than the NN3/5 upper arm. Would need to get some degree measures on it for accuracy of positioning.

Thanks for sharing

PhotoSpherix · Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:36 pm

On the first few revisions we had a single arm that held the camera. We found that even a movement of 1/32 of an inch in the camera from horizontal to vertical made the object of photography move from the top of the field to the bottom. We also wanted this rig to work as a general rig. Objects from 2in by 2in to 24in x 24in. It made an accuracy issue that was fixed for "small" objects. Later we found that you could not shoot smaller than 2 in on this rig. Another thing to think about is do you want your lights to track with the camera. With a camera, batteries, two strobes and two soft boxes, you carry 25 lbs on the arm. Then add the counter balance of 60 - 80 lbs. you have almost 100 lbs on the pivot bearing.

If anyone chooses to make a rig, just remember about some rule about weight x distance from pivot x (i think pie) = force at pivot.
So, from above a 25lb weight extended on a 3ft arm exerts a force of 235.5 foots pound on the arm. Remember I'm a basket weaver not an engineer and it has been 6-7 years since I built this rig.

The latest revisions on our rigs are of a completely different design. The new design made it possible to have a 16 ft radius. This way just about anything can be loaded and shot on a multi-row. The strangest thing is that the new design can be carried by one person. The complete camera track weighs in at less than 100 lbs. But it does fit in a truck. It had to be made in place.

zap · Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:21 am

Thanks for the reply on this one.

Valuable arguments

for the 2 side

But I have 2 more general questions :
- Is your new rick also a diy construction or you got one out of the box (if so could you hint to the constructors links)

- How to do those bottom shots. When you turn the object on the turntable doesn't this change position and make aligning in Object2VR most difficult?

Cheers

PhotoSpherix · Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:35 pm

The only way that I know of to shoot the top and the bottom of an object is to rig it twice(flip it). Some times this is easy. Some items, you spend more time in rigging than you do in photography.

Our turntable has the ability to have a table or a spindle. With the spindle you have a "small" mounting area so that you can go below the horizon while photographing. We have not had the spindle on the rig for years. It works, but it does not work great.

Special Note: If anyone is thinking about the making a multi-row rig YOU HAVE TO CENTER THE OBJECT IN ALL AXIS. Otherwise, the object tilts instead of rotates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Think of the wobble when an object is not centered on a single row. It will do the same thing from row to row.

zap · Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:44 pm

Thanks for sharing your valuable professional experience.

Lighting objects do you think it is better using flash master/slaves or using a constant light source (e.g. those for video productions)

cheers

PhotoSpherix · Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:40 pm

Lighting is the hardest part of the process. Well maybe the photoshop work fixing the lighting is harder. I will say it takes a few softboxes from a few angles to get the images to where you want them. We have worked both with hot lamps and strobes. The electric bill at the office likes the strobes the best. Take a look at alien bee. Their strobes work great, the only issue we have is that from time to time the strobe is not consistent.

One other thing to think about. If your power in your studio is not even and I mean real even, you will get a dip in hot lamps, then you have to re-shoot or spend time in photoshop again.

zap · Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:46 pm

Hi

Mostly knew German products like Dörr and Walimex.

Seems interesting those Alien Bee.
You recommend them because you use some or because of their interesting price/quality specs?

You also use semi transparent matt white plexiglas? In another threat I asked for chroma key but seems not being much used in object photography. Will have to make a few try's once I get my hobby studio equipped and running.

PhotoSpherix · Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:42 pm

I use the alien bees and love them. They are great for studio shots where you are not moving them from location to location and you are not adjusting them over and over. Price is great too!

I have played with many different surfaces for the table top. Everything from just a spindle to reflective paint, different glass options, and one of the best that I have found to date is a solid color for the table top and then a then layer of acetate. This makes a reflection that customers are asking for and it makes only one reflection not two.

http://www.diyphotography.net/avoiding- ... reflection

digimg02 · Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:44 am

How would you make the measurements to determine the angle and distance to the camera if you are using a normal tripod? One idea I had was to make a custom stand that would mount three cameras, one for each row. Basically there would be an angled vertical arm with horizontal mounts for the cameras. Would that be feasible? I found the software to control the cameras together, but am not sure where to start making measurements to make the stand.