My Previous Specific Navigation Issues - YMMV

Q&A about the latest versions
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Branigan
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 3:43 pm

Hi Martin,

It's been a while and then I see that V7 Beta is out and there are new Tutorials. :) Upgrade cost is €100, so I'm just wondering if some of the issues I had with V6 are now resolved to convince me I need the upgrade.

I skimmed the new videos and it all looks great with unfolding lines etc. on info boxes etc. and automated this and that, but from what I can see V7 has a lot of mainly desktop-centric tour features/improvements.

As I can't use most of those on mobile, tablet or touchscreens - I can't even have location names pop up on navigation icons, especially not below them on the screen, as that's where your finger is - I have to stick to features that work on everything; and so I'm more interested in any navigation improvements.

As you'll recall the main issues I had were:

1) the FoV Mode defaults to Vertical (i.e. a 9:16 mobile screen held upright) and it seems everyone leaves it like that for creating Desktop (16:9) tours. As this FoV then crops in the sides too much when displayed on 9:16 mobile or 4:3 tablets, I set it to Diagonal FoV where it does adjust the window accordingly. This was fine. We all then discovered that much of the maths didn't expect anyone to do this and Transitions didn't work properly and were too fast/slow or went too far/not far enough. This was apparently a complicated thing to fix and while it was it said it was possibly going to happen in a v6 update about a year(? more?) ago, it would definitely (?) happen in v7.

There was a fairly late minor update to Transitions to attempt to improve the Zoom range, which apparently did something for 'Vertical FoV', but because of the 'hard-wired' maths it did nothing for Diagonal FoV, which is why I think it was deferred to V7. So was it ever fixed? And does it still default to Vertical 9:16 instead of Horizontal 16:9 on new tours?

2) When it did a Transition, there was/is no way to stop a random black or a white blank screen briefly appearing (seems browser/platform dependent on which you'd get) before any navigation or other icon/buttons etc. appeared floating in space until the background would load up. Sometimes you get a flash of the 0-100% 'loading bar' appearing (unless you turned it off to save time) and sometimes you'd get a mixture of low-res and high-res panels of the cube appearing before the rest of them popped in behind your buttons/icons. It didn't seem to be prioritising the cube's panels in the direction of travel, so you could get a mix of Black/white, a low-res panel on the left and a high-res on the right before it all filled in. It also doesn't seem to prioritise all the low-res before the high-res.

I'm guessing it's a thread thing? You may ask in the right order, but Javascript still brings your dessert before the starter... It only takes less than a second for this to happen, but it's very distracting and it doesn't seem to be double (or triple?) buffered, so you see all the clunkiness. All this occurs even when navigating a local copy of the tour, unless you'd visited a location already and it was cached when...

...just before the Transition attempt the image would turn to half-res horizontally - so visibly thicker vertical lines/edges - before attempting the fade (the only Transition that didn't jump/zoom too far in Diagonal FoV).

Like this:
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half-quality.gif
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The 'half-res' explanation was: it was a Javascript problem with cacheing the RAM used for the screen images, so everything is squished to half width to make it fit during the Transition/Fade. I'm guessing it would require some clever juggling to reuse the RAM allocated for the panels behind you and prioritising the direction you were facing to get it to all work smoothly, as in Kuula etc.

I don't want much. Just a fairly simple slight zoom in/crossfaded into another slight zoom in (starting a little way out) into the next location - in Diagonal FoV - with it prioritising the panels that are in front of me (take note of this per location/navigation direction because it can/will change) and loading in those behind me afterwards at full horizontal res with minimal drama and no blanks. Like this:
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I'm not going to immediately do a 180 in the 1st second of a new location to try and catch it out loading those panels I can't yet see behind me. ;) Also, even on a really, really slow connection / high ping, perhaps using the teeny mini-360 full panorama image that it generates if you select VR mode to very quickly cover up the black/white blanks before it (again in view-facing order) loads up the low-res images and then the high-res ones.

Must be some way to beat Javascript with a stick to make it work. What is literally everyone else in this space doing to not experience this?

Oh BTW: I'm still only using Single-Res rather than Multi-Res cube faces, as I had problems with the hundreds of mini-jpegs it produced per location taking too long to load and it never quite choosing the correct resolution on mobiles and tablets, and so always making them blurry. Also some specific problems with large panoramas (25000+ wide) images and looking down and the nadir getting mangled (aerial images). Maybe I'd try using Multi-Res again if the other things have improved.

Once a location was actually loaded, I didn't really have much of a problem with 'missing' features, or the display quality itself - except the lagging of anything overlaid onto the background on slower hardware during rotation - it's just those transitions that made things look clunky.

So, did the FoV maths become more generalised and are Transitions improved at all? Or are they going to be? Is it double/triple buffered? Going to be?

Cheers :)
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Hopki
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Hi Branigan,
The FoV mode default is now diagonal with a default of 100.
This can be found under the Properties - project and under the Project Settings tab.

Screenshot 2022-05-25 at 09.27.46.png
Screenshot 2022-05-25 at 09.27.46.png (41.34 KiB) Viewed 1052 times

As it is diagonal it responds to different screen orientations very well.
You can download V7 and run it in trial mode to test it.


Transitions are still a work in progress in the beta but are on the list.
Regards,
Garden Gnome Support
If you send an e-mail to support please send a link to the forum post for reference.
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Branigan
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 3:43 pm

Martin,

OK, thanks for replying, and it's good that Diagonal FoV is now the default, but that also worked fine on V6 once you remembered to select it.

The problem was that doing that caused it to go a bit whoozy on Zoom Transitions.

The short(er) version of your reply reads like: No change plus mañana.

It's been a long while since they were going to be fixed and they're fairly important given that every user will experience them, so is anyone able to provide any sort of a timeframe for improvements and what they might be?

As you've already said 'no', and not that fixing the 'hard-wired' maths (if it has been?) has resulted in them working any better, I can hold off testing the Beta for a while. But others can benefit from your replies to these questions:

- Has the 'hard-wired' maths been fixed throughout so things should work as expected in all FoV modes?
- Does it still do the black/white flash before filling in the panorama cube faces in Single Res Mode? - is this specifically on the fix list?
- Does it still squish the image before a Fade Transition? - is this specifically on the fix list?
- Does it still display overlays/icons/info etc. before it's finished loading the cube faces and do they still lag when you rotate? - is this specifically on the fix list?
- Is the screen double/triple buffered to avoid this? Will it be? Is there another solution?
- How do "y'all" plan to improve Transitions? What features can we expect?

I know bug fixes aren't as compelling as **Fab New Features!!!** when selling a new version, but apart from that tiny, but very visible issue, I'm so far not seeing what advantages V7 has for me specifically over V6. YMMV.

Everyone and his dog is adding a Doll's House feature to their software and it's getting harder to compete using 'legacy' graphics and effects.

Cheers,
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Hopki
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Posts: 13021
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:16 pm
Location: Layer de la Haye, Essex UK
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Branigan,
Further to the Diagonal FoV mode, the default FoV is no 100, so when setting targets it also uses 100.
Regarding the flicker with a single resolution output, the current beta works with Firefox and Safari, but anything Chromium based still shows a slight flicker. The next beta will have the fix for the Chromium based browsers.
For your other questions, download and try it.
But with regards to transitions still work in progress.
Regards,
Garden Gnome Support
If you send an e-mail to support please send a link to the forum post for reference.
support@ggnome.com
https://ggnome.com/wiki/documentation/
Branigan
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 3:43 pm

Thanks, but without a few more 'Yes's to the questions, what is there for me to actually test? :?

If you said you'd all made big changes and it needs destruction testing in that area, that's a better incentive and worth spending some time checking out.

I'll keep reading the release notes for updates if/when that happens, but as I wrote: v6 more or less works and none of the other extra features look like anything I could use, or that a client would prioritise over fixing those issues.

But that's just me. I'd be equally hesitant about going to a Tesla dealer and when asked if they've fixed the 'Phantom Braking' bug that gets you rear-ended if you're not careful, his reply was "Why not take it for a test drive and let me know?" ;)

Link here about that, if allowed: :) https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-p ... ?r=US&IR=T
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