Hi all
I have found that my tours are struggling to run smoothly using auto rotate \animation on my Laptop. Although my Surface Pro 4 has an integrated graphics card the device is an Intel Core i7-6650U, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD so I thought it would be man enough for the job. I am outputting at multi resolution and therefore its probably using the full screen resolution of 2736 x 1824 pixels. I am running tour off SSD drive not online. I have tried reducing the resolution of laptop but this does not make any difference to improve the playing of tours.
Has anyone any advice to on how to improve the playing ? Should I set a fixed resolution ? The original images are 10000x5000 and I only have 2 panos per tour. I have tried using Firefox, IE11 and Microsoft Edge.
Thanks
Boothy
Tour juddering\stuttering on a Surface pro 4
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360Texas
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hmm I thought video output performance was based on video card ram storage... and video spooling additional memory space if needed from the ... thinking... hard drive free space .. maybe ?
Maybe that was Windows 3x 1990 technology.
Maybe that was Windows 3x 1990 technology.
Hi Dave
Thanks for the response, You are probably right, I am not sure. I only ask the general question about resource versus resolution because when the same pano is played on my aging Galaxy Note 3 at a obviously smaller resolution the tour runs better. That's why I was wondering if QHD or 4k devices are detrimental to smooth playing with unless some very serious graphics hardware is applied or if its just my device? I part bought my very versatile but expensive Surface Pro 4 to play presentations at meetings but currently the output is not great. Output online runs a little better in comparison to offline.
I know this is not a Pano2vr issue but just thought if any Forum members had a take on this or similar experience with output on QHD + resolution displays or whether I am missing something on the video codec front. I cannot find anything specific on the net regarding tour playback in this context.
Should the multi resolution aspect affect play back on auto rotate\animation ? Are there any tweaks apart from the obvious reduction of output in resolution to improve playback generally ?
I am using auto rotate at fairly slow speeds so I will experiment with settings and fixed output resolutions to see if I can improve my lot - It will be a shame to have to customise tour just for one device. Is there any way to change auto rotate speed in the tour its self ?
Unfortunately the ones I am testing at the moment are `Live` design projects which I cannot upload at present. I will test some earlier projects also.
Thanks again
Boothy
Thanks for the response, You are probably right, I am not sure. I only ask the general question about resource versus resolution because when the same pano is played on my aging Galaxy Note 3 at a obviously smaller resolution the tour runs better. That's why I was wondering if QHD or 4k devices are detrimental to smooth playing with unless some very serious graphics hardware is applied or if its just my device? I part bought my very versatile but expensive Surface Pro 4 to play presentations at meetings but currently the output is not great. Output online runs a little better in comparison to offline.
I know this is not a Pano2vr issue but just thought if any Forum members had a take on this or similar experience with output on QHD + resolution displays or whether I am missing something on the video codec front. I cannot find anything specific on the net regarding tour playback in this context.
Should the multi resolution aspect affect play back on auto rotate\animation ? Are there any tweaks apart from the obvious reduction of output in resolution to improve playback generally ?
I am using auto rotate at fairly slow speeds so I will experiment with settings and fixed output resolutions to see if I can improve my lot - It will be a shame to have to customise tour just for one device. Is there any way to change auto rotate speed in the tour its self ?
Unfortunately the ones I am testing at the moment are `Live` design projects which I cannot upload at present. I will test some earlier projects also.
Thanks again
Boothy
-
360Texas
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- Posts: 3684
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Boothy,
You mentioned
Level Tile Size?
Level 1
Level 2
Level 3
Often we use 6000 x 3000 16bit .tif file type. 16bit image increases detail and color. Our Level values are evenly divisible by the Level tile size.
Advantages: Reduces the number of tiles. When looking in the Tiles folder we found about a 30% reduction in number of tiles. There are no partially filled tiles. Fewer tiles still gets the job done and the project Mb is smaller. Smaller project means faster upload to server.
Simple explanation: Take a take a small stack of paper in hand. Ill use a small block of 2 x 2 inch sticky yellow post-it note pad. Each yellow square is an image frame. The top sheet is 0. The second sheet is 1 degree to the right (includes a screen refresh). The 3rd sheet is 1 more degree to the right and refresh. Now if you fan all the sheets it appears that the image angle of view is slowly rotating to the right. The viewing affect is like a movie but its not its a project stack of single frames or tiles.
The stuttering you are experiencing could be a result of trying to display large tiles (read takes longer to load each tile) before rotating 1 degree to the right then screen refreshing at the new angle of view. A fast .4 (or 4 10th of 1 degree) is demanding the large tiles to be processed and displayed.
Dave's Axiom = Bigger is always better. Faster hardware. More Ram. Your use of an Intel i7 processor is a good idea.
Sometimes too much information ? I think this makes sense. While the software processes the data... its also hardware dependent.
Under performing hardware will slow and cause display issues.
But then you already knew this.
We use a .07 slow rotation rate (or 7 100th of 1 degree).. the Graphic Processor Unit (GPU) on the video card has time to process the tiles before rotating another 1 degree to the right then screen refresh and load another set of tiles.
Level tile size is 512px
Level 1 2048 where even multiple 2048 / 512 = even value 4 a whole number rather than a fraction 3.995
Level 2 1024 where even multiple 1024 / 512 = even value 2
Level 3 512 where even multiple 512 / 512 = even value 1
I revisited your original comment and need to ask what were the multi res valuesI am outputting at multi resolution......
You mentioned
What were your values for Level Tile size and number of Levels ?The original images are 10000x5000
Level Tile Size?
Level 1
Level 2
Level 3
Often we use 6000 x 3000 16bit .tif file type. 16bit image increases detail and color. Our Level values are evenly divisible by the Level tile size.
Advantages: Reduces the number of tiles. When looking in the Tiles folder we found about a 30% reduction in number of tiles. There are no partially filled tiles. Fewer tiles still gets the job done and the project Mb is smaller. Smaller project means faster upload to server.
Simple explanation: Take a take a small stack of paper in hand. Ill use a small block of 2 x 2 inch sticky yellow post-it note pad. Each yellow square is an image frame. The top sheet is 0. The second sheet is 1 degree to the right (includes a screen refresh). The 3rd sheet is 1 more degree to the right and refresh. Now if you fan all the sheets it appears that the image angle of view is slowly rotating to the right. The viewing affect is like a movie but its not its a project stack of single frames or tiles.
The stuttering you are experiencing could be a result of trying to display large tiles (read takes longer to load each tile) before rotating 1 degree to the right then screen refreshing at the new angle of view. A fast .4 (or 4 10th of 1 degree) is demanding the large tiles to be processed and displayed.
Dave's Axiom = Bigger is always better. Faster hardware. More Ram. Your use of an Intel i7 processor is a good idea.
Sometimes too much information ? I think this makes sense. While the software processes the data... its also hardware dependent.
Under performing hardware will slow and cause display issues.
But then you already knew this.
We use a .07 slow rotation rate (or 7 100th of 1 degree).. the Graphic Processor Unit (GPU) on the video card has time to process the tiles before rotating another 1 degree to the right then screen refresh and load another set of tiles.
Level tile size is 512px
Level 1 2048 where even multiple 2048 / 512 = even value 4 a whole number rather than a fraction 3.995
Level 2 1024 where even multiple 1024 / 512 = even value 2
Level 3 512 where even multiple 512 / 512 = even value 1
Hi Dave
Thanks for all that I will set off and relook at all the tile values. The current tours I have problems with I have just had on auto settings for speed of production but will get on to it and report back.
One thing I have discovered since my last post and this applies to other laptops besides the Surface Pro is that the Intel Iris integrated graphics is 1gb which is not bad and should be good for most things (obviously not has good has dedicated graphics), Microsoft throttle the output by 25% to maintain battery life and reduce heat displacement. I can understand this with the Pro 4 being an hybrid device ( I bought this primarily for this reason because I now spend a lot of time commuting between home and London and its suits the varying seating positons I end up with ). There is a simple fairly low risk hack for this see this link:
http://www.windowscentral.com/how-max-i ... face-pro-4
Having had the machine for only 2 weeks I would like to yet used to it a little more before I start tweaking at that level. Tweaking the registry is easy I am not to sure about excess heat on battery life over an extended period. I like my Surface Pro running cool. I would rather see if I can improve via other avenues first.
I will first take your advice and look at the tile sizes. because most of my presentations are computer renders rather than photographic tours reducing size down to 6000 x 3000 can have an effect on clarity when zoomed in during animations.
Anyway thanks so much again for the info.
Best Wishes
Boothy
Thanks for all that I will set off and relook at all the tile values. The current tours I have problems with I have just had on auto settings for speed of production but will get on to it and report back.
One thing I have discovered since my last post and this applies to other laptops besides the Surface Pro is that the Intel Iris integrated graphics is 1gb which is not bad and should be good for most things (obviously not has good has dedicated graphics), Microsoft throttle the output by 25% to maintain battery life and reduce heat displacement. I can understand this with the Pro 4 being an hybrid device ( I bought this primarily for this reason because I now spend a lot of time commuting between home and London and its suits the varying seating positons I end up with ). There is a simple fairly low risk hack for this see this link:
http://www.windowscentral.com/how-max-i ... face-pro-4
Having had the machine for only 2 weeks I would like to yet used to it a little more before I start tweaking at that level. Tweaking the registry is easy I am not to sure about excess heat on battery life over an extended period. I like my Surface Pro running cool. I would rather see if I can improve via other avenues first.
I will first take your advice and look at the tile sizes. because most of my presentations are computer renders rather than photographic tours reducing size down to 6000 x 3000 can have an effect on clarity when zoomed in during animations.
Anyway thanks so much again for the info.
Best Wishes
Boothy
-
360Texas
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- Posts: 3684
- Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:06 pm
- Location: Fort Worth, Texas USA
- Contact:
We sometimes use a MS Surface Pro 3 with Win10 Pro with a smaller SSD and smaller amount of RAM.
This panorama is a 6000 x 3000 with the same Multi-Res setting = 2048, 1024, 512 and Level = 512. Rotation is set for .07.
The initial image is sort of slow loading but once loaded I see no detectable stuttering during rotation. Slow loading could be caused by our internet connect ion, slow routers, and copper wire. (we have a 24 mbps internet connection). AND the Surface is using a 802.11n wireless connection to our gigabit router.
Looking forward to seeing your work on your website. I can learn a lot in a few minutes visiting your site.
This panorama is a 6000 x 3000 with the same Multi-Res setting = 2048, 1024, 512 and Level = 512. Rotation is set for .07.
The initial image is sort of slow loading but once loaded I see no detectable stuttering during rotation. Slow loading could be caused by our internet connect ion, slow routers, and copper wire. (we have a 24 mbps internet connection). AND the Surface is using a 802.11n wireless connection to our gigabit router.
Looking forward to seeing your work on your website. I can learn a lot in a few minutes visiting your site.
Hi Dave
Sent you an email for reference. My broadband is fairly consistent at 63 gb I am mainly presenting and testing offline so this may be a contributing factor. I will do some tests tomorrow and report back
Best Wishes
Boothy
Sent you an email for reference. My broadband is fairly consistent at 63 gb I am mainly presenting and testing offline so this may be a contributing factor. I will do some tests tomorrow and report back
Best Wishes
Boothy
Hi Dave
Thanks for all that advice. The tip about using divisible tiles rather than just selecting auto is a must, my test sample (6 x 1000x5000 nodes) reduced from 118mb down to 78mb. I did try resampling to 6000x3000 with a 16 bit Tiff export but I found I was loosing some clarity of image when zooming in during animations.
Speed seems to help a lot, by reducing auto rotate speeds and using either lower magic keyframes or stretching existing keyframes mad a big difference.
The issue is quite clearly tile loading related, the best results by far came from using a full resolution single image rather than multi-resolution tiles. For the little time it takes I may have to consider an additional output configuration for offline presentations (where bandwidth is not a problem). If using auto rotate or an animation with no zoom I think this would make less difference. My test sample involves 6 nodes which have the camera in the animation continually zooming in and out of the scene so therefore I presume there will be a lot more tile loading.
Although I upload presentations to my web site for Client convenience and remote viewing a lot of my recent presentations have been offline in specific events.
Any way thank you again for your help and passing on your experience.
Best Wishes
Boothy
Thanks for all that advice. The tip about using divisible tiles rather than just selecting auto is a must, my test sample (6 x 1000x5000 nodes) reduced from 118mb down to 78mb. I did try resampling to 6000x3000 with a 16 bit Tiff export but I found I was loosing some clarity of image when zooming in during animations.
Speed seems to help a lot, by reducing auto rotate speeds and using either lower magic keyframes or stretching existing keyframes mad a big difference.
The issue is quite clearly tile loading related, the best results by far came from using a full resolution single image rather than multi-resolution tiles. For the little time it takes I may have to consider an additional output configuration for offline presentations (where bandwidth is not a problem). If using auto rotate or an animation with no zoom I think this would make less difference. My test sample involves 6 nodes which have the camera in the animation continually zooming in and out of the scene so therefore I presume there will be a lot more tile loading.
Although I upload presentations to my web site for Client convenience and remote viewing a lot of my recent presentations have been offline in specific events.
Any way thank you again for your help and passing on your experience.
Best Wishes
Boothy